Curse

Squishy ftw · Oct 13, 2007, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

WY+GFTE needed this nerf. Basically infinite energy, and ridiculous party buffs. This whole PvE thing is BS - Paras are still overpowered in PvE because of TNTF.

I fail to see the difference between that and a dual attunement ele, sometimes even with gole, being able to spam spells.. So that also needs to get nerfed?..

Maximumraver · Oct 13, 2007, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squishy ftw

It means that when you vanquish an area that had 200 foes in it, you get 200 * 5 = 1k gold when you kill the last foe in that area.

Ah ok, thank you.

Cobalt · Oct 13, 2007, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Good job showing a COMPLETE lack of understanding of PvP.

For example, if Eles suddenly had their energy management nerfed (ie, attunements and GoLE suddenly stoped working completely), sure you'd see a lot of complaining. But suddenly Ether Prodigy and Mantra of Recall Eles would make a comeback from the old Phrophecies days. No matter how useful 2 or 3 skills are, there nerf/buff will not destroy a class. Good players adapt. Bad players QQ.

Ah but most players just stop playing the Ele class altogether like myself and made them mules instead.

Smart players who care QQ because if you don't complain nothing will ever get better only worse.

Spazzer · Oct 13, 2007, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lagg

Paragons got the nerfbat yet again...

"Watch Yourself!" and "Go For the Eyes!" both have a 4 second recharge now.

I wonder how they'll survive without all that unlimited energy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IlikeGW

Who gives a crap about PvP in this game? It's always imbalanced, and has always revovled around gank gimmick-of-the-month builds. It's stupid to turn PVE classes into mush, they might as well make seperate skill updates.

Are you trolling, or do you really believe this? I find it difficult to accept that you think this way.

Snow Bunny · Oct 13, 2007, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squishy ftw

I fail to see the difference between that and a dual attunement ele, sometimes even with gole, being able to spam spells.. So that also needs to get nerfed?..

Because Para's broke PvP. And sometimes, guess what.

ANet will actually attempt to listen to Pvpers once in a blue moon.

I know the nerf to SoD was needed....but I still loved that spell.

Winterclaw · Oct 13, 2007, 08:18 PM // 20:18

I know it wasn't such a great skill to begin with, but the change to conjure frost means that [wiki]Mist Form[/wiki] was nerfed too in this update making it an even weaker elite.

Would Anet please consider buffing it up to make up for the change in the Conjures?

Legendary Shiz · Oct 13, 2007, 08:24 PM // 20:24

I'm not -too- terribly upset about the change they DID make, as they (for the most part) seem to be going in the right direction.

However, I don't think I could be anymore upset about the changes they DIDN'T make. There is so much trash in this game right now, and they're ignoring it because Izzy likes watching red bars go down super fast.

Arenanet has always been known to put a bandaid on their problems instead of fixing things, and this update is no exception. Instead of changing it up so that not only blockway isn't as powerful, but that it's not forced upon you, they just made it a little less broken.

I could go on for days, and there are posts already on most what I would say about the updates.

It's pretty sad to see the players care more about the game than the staff working on the game.

CHunterX · Oct 13, 2007, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mickey

Congrats for showing the Holy Trinity pug mindset.

I didn't even mention any classes. What are you talking about? I vaguely mentioned Monk's by saying H+H will spam condition removal on Cracked armor, which is a fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Good job showing a COMPLETE lack of understanding of PvP.

My understanding of Paragons being overpowered in PvP was running 4 of them to keep "Incoming!" up constant. And besides:

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHunterX

Its apparently impossible to run AR with H+H now

H+H = PvP AMIRTE?

If they wanted to fix Paragons in PvP and leave them viable for PvE outside of TNTF spammer, all they had to do was the one thing the community has asked for repeatedly:
Make certain (or all) shouts last on the effects bar for X amount of time, so it can't be reapplied by multiple Paragons. Example:
"Incoming!"
Elite Shout. For 1...8 seconds, all party member within earshot take 50% less damage. This shouts' aftereffect lasts for 20...15 seconds where it cannot be reapplied to affected party members.

Or something to that affect. Still viable, still relatively useful, and prevents chaining it. But did they listen? No, they took the easy way out and reduced most shouts to shit.

Inde · Oct 13, 2007, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Calm down please. Every skill update is controversial. If you can't have an intelligent debate without insults or threatening to quit (no, this does not contribute) then this thread will be closed.

SleepyLuxon · Oct 13, 2007, 08:56 PM // 20:56

As a big time Paragon player I was unhappy about the nerfs to GFTE! and AR and even WY, I feel as though these nerfs to these skills were not for balance but to appease those that complain about Paragons.

I see no fairness ive seen Paragon get shafted almost every skill balance with no buffs(except for awe which isnt that big of a deal cause of spear swipe). GFTE or WY and AR was on every Paragon's Bar, now what is our niche? , sure we got TNTF (which was nerfed for another classes's abuse of it, which it did need a nerf.) Save Yourselves is really good but as its been said before a Warrior can use it just as well.

The buff to SF i see is a blessing in disguise cause maybe people will want Their on Fire! now.

The Real Problems:

Leadership , Finales , Armor

Spazzer · Oct 13, 2007, 08:58 PM // 20:58

I'm sad about the change to Chilblains, that's about it. It's like a sissy mirror of disenchantment and no longer has a niche.

trobinson97 · Oct 13, 2007, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spazzer

I wonder how they'll survive without all that unlimited energy.

Are you trolling, or do you really believe this? I find it difficult to accept that you think this way.

Why do you find it so difficult? That IS what PvP is all about. Find a few fotm builds that work really well and use them until they're nerfed. Rinse and repeat. Same goes for the majority of pve, though it's rare that something gets nerfed because of pve. Oh yeah, and most pve people aren't fooling themselves thinking what they do is so great and requires so much skill.

Ben-A-BoO · Oct 13, 2007, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Some of my feedback after testing ...

Mesmer buffs:
Nice!

Spirits - 50 HP:
PvE wise ~ Hurting Rits again ... ouch!
PvP wise ~ Soul reaping FTW! (sarcasm: which means makes no diff. really in the spirits runs I had ... still boring, still imba)

Paragon eg. AR, GftE & watch your self:
Feels like the "exhaustion nerf" to the rits ... needs balance but this is too much
~ Cracked Armor buries other condition beyond control (strategy lost)
~ The 4 sec recharge (on both skills) makes you lose too much adrenaline
(adjust leadership not the skills that paras rely on to be part of the game)

Necro:
~ Chilblains: eh? Izzy likes the griefers in HA?
~ Angorodon's Gaze: needs a nerf ... looks like ZB to me now ... dead kinda.
PvE changes eg. mini pets & HM:
Sweet!

(although i feel i missed something by not using the exploits of the Master Guides and primaries ... sigh)

Cheers,
Timebandit

P.s. I might enjoy something that was broken in the first place ... but, paragons and rits are profession I love to play. recent nerfs just turned me down ... why leave something like Melandru (pvp) and Ursan Blessing (pve) untouched while hurting anything else which power you could enjoy ...

Take care

Bargamer · Oct 13, 2007, 10:36 PM // 22:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobalt

Sure you can play Rits differently with some odd hybrid builds but no one deserved to be punished for playing them exactly the way they were meant to be played which is exactly what this nerf did.

Let's hear it for the odd hybrid builds! Minion Bombers FTW! Splinter Barrage FTW! Seriously, I think the whole emphasis on splits in PVP is Anet trying to make everyone, PVP/PVE included, an odd hybrid build.

Vizzi · Oct 13, 2007, 11:18 PM // 23:18

All of these changes, some good, some not so good,.. Some really unneeded ones,..

And Still [skill]Winter[/skill] hasn't been fixed.

Is it too much to ask to please revert Winter's ability to be able to do what its supposed to do, like the text read's on the skill icon??

Iuris · Oct 13, 2007, 11:30 PM // 23:30

For all it's worth:

First, I would like to applaud the hero/dungeon journal modification. This makes for a nice way to gain EotN faction without having to resort to grind. Also, the fact that a single playing through the game will fill out a hero journal and allow the player to purchase at least one of the factions' armor is a great idea.

I also appreciate the solomonic solution to the Hall of Monuments and miniatures situation.

Several changes, however, seem to be bad moves:

-Ritualists have been hit too hard before, and this hits them further. I'm all for spirits being easily destroyed, but with such a drastic lowering of their health, the whole mechanic of "spirit loses X life whenever it uses its ability" need to be reworked. The life loss halved the amount of damage Shelter and Union prevent, the number of attacks blocked by Displacement, the number of times Wanderlust knocks enemies down, the amount of damage Agony inflicts and Rejuvenation heals (which was already ridiculously low), the amount of time Earthbind keeps the enemy down and so on.

A simple demonstration: I just tested out the new Shelter. I removed my armour, buffed communing and spawning power to 12 each, and let a Norn whack me. Shelter held out for 4 hits. 4 hits. The spirit can't even counter a single party wide Pyroclastic shot. I do relize it couldn't do that even before, however that only serves to stress the problems with the mechanic.

The whole "life for effect" mechanic needs a full reworking.

A possible solution that occurs to me is generally lowering the level of these spirits, which would make them very easy to kill directly, while lowering the life costs significantly further. For example, a Shelter spirit with half the life but a quarter of the life loss would be of twice the value to a PvE player while in PvP, it would easily be killed if the effect were to become too bothersome to the group.

-Paragons need some PvE attention. Simply having two builds worth of useful skills that keep getting nerfed while the majority of skills lacks any use is not a good thing. I'm sure the PvP crowd has its reasons for wanting the nerf, but I really wish my Paragon could switch builds every once in a while without losing all effectiveness in PvE. And no, PvE is not too easy, not for everyone.

In light of the heavy hits that the paragons keep taking, it seems to me that perhaps the problem is not in the paragon not being too effective but rather that the skills that counter the paragon are too situational to warrant a place on the skill bar. While playing EotN, my paragon has been on the receiving end of those skills, and they hurt. Significantly. A single vocal minority had me take a forced rest, which also meant that my aggressive refrain went down as I could not keep it up.

Perhaps the way to countering the paragon does still lie in those skills. A possible solution to this problem would be adding additional effects to those skills that would make the skills useful even if no paragons present themselves.

Additionally, I believe that a skill that removes shouts and chants would be in order. A simple skill that removes all shouts from a target (or even a group), call it a "Deafening boom", would be a most effective counter to a paragon.

The thing is that a paragon's use of energy costing shouts means the paragon must keep replenishing energy with adrenaline based shouts. This is the paragon's "trick of the trade". In order to power those adrenaline based shouts, the paragon needs to keep attacking nearly as quickly as possible and for as much of the time as possible.

In order to achieve this, the paragon must "start his engine up". This is not necessarily an easy matter. For example, with a paragon's 2 energy regeneration and low energy total, starting up both Aggressive refrain and Focused anger takes up almost all of the paragon's energy, only possible with a full energy supply.

Hit the paragon with a skill that shuts the energy recovering engine down, and the paragon is put back in his place.

While on the subject, any chant with a long casting time breaks the attack sequence, which in turn breaks the energy returning sequence.

I would recommend a review of the chants' casting times in view of the above, both as a potential of toning down some too overused skills and as a potential way of improving the underused skills. Some rarely used ones may warrant a "quickening" while others may warrant a longer "ouverture".

I would also recommend reviewing the shouts/chants that only activate on attack skills (in a balanced party, that's only 3 actual recipients and including normal attacks would boost that to 8 recipients) and would review the "affects only party/all allies" skills. Affecting all allies, not just the party, is a nice bonus in some PvE situations.

SleepyLuxon · Oct 14, 2007, 12:19 AM // 00:19

All i gotta say is where's the Para love....

Master Ketsu · Oct 14, 2007, 01:29 AM // 01:29

I can see anet's designers really want to implement their new condition ( cracked armor ) into the game, but their are better ways to do this.

Just make Aggressive refrain give a constant -20 armor while its on. I was watching how it works with the skill in observer earlier and it just doesnt fly.
Sometimes they will have CA every second, sometimes not.

If you really want to give some stuff cracked armor, find skills that are stupidly underpowered and add it to them.:

[skill]Wastrel's collapse[/skill]
If successfull: gives CA for 1....5....10 sec. move att to Shadow arts.

[skill]thunderclap[/skill]
[skill]primal rage[/skill]

These are just initial suggestions...but I think people get the idea.

Also, it messes with hero's AI too much.

pingu666 · Oct 14, 2007, 03:40 AM // 03:40

the really annoying side of AR in pve is your normaly constantly moving forward, and u forget about spamming shouts just to keep AR up, less of a issue in pvp

HawkofStorms · Oct 14, 2007, 03:54 AM // 03:54

Just because somebody disagrees with you doesn't make them terrible human beings. Keep you personal insults out of this thread and keep it clean. If you have a problem with somebody's behavior or attitude, take it out on them in a PM or contact a moderator.